Curse

ump · Nov 08, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

I wanted to get more exposure and some feedback on the following build.

W/A Sword Warrior
12+3+1 sword, 8+1 strength, 10+1 tactics

Sever Artery, Gash, Final Thrust, You're All Alone!, Frenzy, Sprint, Healing Signet, Signet of Malice

P/W Offensive Shouter
10+2 leadership, 11+2+1 command, 10+1 spear

Wild Throw, Go for the Eyes!, Anthem of Flame, Incoming!, Burning Refrain, Blazing Finale, Aggressive Refrain, Resurrection Signet

P/W Defensive Shouter
10+1+1 leadership, 12+2 motivation, 8+1 command, 2 spear

Signet of Synergy, Watch Yourself!, They're on Fire!, Incoming!, Finale of Restoration, Purifying Finale, Mending Refrain, Resurrection Signet

Me/Mo Mesmer
11+2 fast cast, 11+2+1 inspiration, 7 protection, 5 healing

Mantra of Recovery, Drain Enchantment, Ether Phantom, Drain Delusions, Dismiss Condition, Remove Hex, Aegis, Resurrection Chant

W/P Axe Warrior
12+3+1 axe, 10+1 strength, 8 command

Evicerate, Executioner's Strike, Bull's Strike, Critical Chop, Frenzy, Sprint, Go for the Eyes!, Resurrection Signet

D/N Orders Dervish
10+3+1 mysticism, 12 blood, 8+1 earth

Order of Pain, Signet of Pious Light, Imbue Health, Aura of Thorns, Conviction, Blood Ritual, Offering of Blood, Resurrection Signet

Mo/Me Glimmer of Light monk
10+1 divine, 11+2+1 healing, 9+1 protection, 4 inspiration, 2 domination

Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Glimmer of Light, Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption, Dismiss Condition, Inspired Hex, Hexbreaker

R/Me Crip Shot runner
12+3+1 expertise, 9+1 marksmanship, 9+1 wilderness, 3 domination

Crippling Shot, Savage Shot, Distracting Shot, Apply Poison, Blackout, Storm Chaser, Troll Unguent, Whirling Defense

* It has been suggested that Dodge->Storm Chaser, Distortion->Whirling Defense, use a superior expertise, get at least 1 more marksmanship and 1 more wilderness from the illusion points.

Description

First the name - Boo is a reference to Baldur's Gate and the infamous pet of Minsc and his famous "Go for the Eyes, Boo" quote, Burn is because this built will try to take advantage of "They're on Fire" so there will need to be enough burning components in the build.

The first thing you'll notice is that there is only 1 true monk in the build (balsphemy, right?). However, if you look carefully in the build, you'll notice a lot of healing and defensive utility in the build.

I used a Glimmer of Light monk to let the healing come from Glimmer of Light while the rest of the utility came from protection spells: Guardian, Protective Spirit, and Shield of Absorption. There is even hex an condition removal in that build in Inspired Hex and Dismiss Condition and more hex protection in Hexbreaker.

The second major source of defense if the defensive shouter who acts like a second monk. Signet of Synergy is his only true heal. However, Mending Refrain and Finale of Restoration add a lot of healing capabilities when the team build uses a lot of shouts/chants. There is even steady condition removal in Purifying Finale. The defensive shouter also provides a steady stream of Watch Yourselfs.

In addition, both paragons bring Incoming to provide 7 and 5 seconds of 50% less damage with a 20 second recharge. On top of that, you have "They're on Fire" to reduce 41% damage from burning foes. The mesmer provides his own Aegis chain for 2x8=16 out of 30 seconds of coverage not including enchantment mods. The necro can even provide Faintheartedness+Shadow of Fear to reduce attack speed of enemy meleers.

Since "They're on Fire" needs enemies to be burning to provide protection, there needs to be enough sources of burning. The offensive paragon has that covered. Burning Refrain is an echo that causes burning when someone hits a foe while Blazing Finale is an echo that causes burning when foes adjacent to an ally. Plus, there is an Anthem of Flame chant that triggers burning on attack skills.

Each paragon has three echoes and three chants/shouts to support those echoes. Watch Yourself and Go For the Eyes are both adrenaline-based so it will be tough to prevent. These are also great ways to convert adrenaline into energy with Leadership.

The offensive paragon can support the offensive also with auto-attacking spears with IAS that will always stay up. Wild Throw ensures that stances are removed often as they are used quite frequently, especially by monks for damage mitigation. Go for the Eyes helps this character provide even more offense.

The sword warrior is build as a solo squirmisher in case he needs to split off offensively. You're all Alone is a great skill when going one-on-one and Signet of Malice provides excellent condition removal when you are so heavily condition-based. Instead of a rez signet, a healing signet is there so he can heal himself.

The mesmer might not have much damage capabilities, but his use of inspiration skills can be used offensively as well. Plus is provides great condition removal, hex removal, and the hard-rez. There is enchantment removal, energy denial, and an interrupt and Mantra of Recovery allows multiple uses of every skill.

The axe warrior is a typical high-damage warrior. However, he gave up Shock in order to run Go For the Eyes to synergize better with the paragons (because it will recharge very quickly and be usable quite often). Disrupting Chop is used to provide interrupts to somewhat make up for the lost knockdown.

The orders necro is a good offensive and defensive support. For offense, Order of Pain will boost all those attacks, especially the flying spears. I suspect it synergizes especially well with Go for the Eyes. Heal Party is there to help out in healing pressure damage. The rest of the skills are there to be used against enemy meleers to reduce their damage.

The flag runner is a crip shot ranger. The reason for this is to have another strong solo character in case of splits. When with the main party, the degen from the poison should max out the degen from the burning. He will be running the flag all the way, so there are two stances, Dodge and Distortion, one for running and one for capping.

As far as positioning goes, the offensive paragon needs to stay in the midline within range of the warrior so the shouts are being heard. The defensive paragon needs to stay in the midline within range of the backline so the shouts are being heard. Obviously, they might overlap so they can get the echoes applied to all the necessary team members. The necro can stay in the backline and even beyond that depending on how the enemy meleers react. For an even split, the warrior, the mesmer, and both shouters go together. However, if possible, send the sword warrior and/or crip shot ranger for intercepting.

Edit 11/13/06
Axe Warrior - Disrupting Chop -> Critical Chop
Mesmer - Energy Tap -> Infuse Health
Ranger - Distortion -> Whirling Defense, Dodge -> Storm Chaser, redid attributes.

Edit 11/16/06
Orders Necro - redid as a D/N.
Mesmer - Infuse Health + Power Drain -> Ether Phantom + Drain Delusions, redid attributes from 14/13 to 13/14.

Stealth Rider · Nov 09, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

A couple of points:

1) Disrupting CHop<Critical CHop with all of that Go for the eyes spam.

2) On the Cripshot, i suggest going R/A and using Signet of Malice instead of Blackout, Natural Stride and Storm Chaser as your running skills. Stride doubles as half a Distortion, though the fact that it is removed by enchants/hexes will hurt you when running. Try synergizing it with your monks (it onyl ends when an enchant or hex is cast* on you. you can keep it up if one is already on you.)

3) Your mesmer seems like he'll have lots of energy and nowhere to put it. PDrain and Drian Enchant is a lot in itself, Tap seems a bit overkill. Recovery/Aegis is a nice idea in theory, but will you really need thta much defense with those paragons and necro? if you dont change it, at least put Power Return there. Youll need that interrupt.

4) speaking of the necro, he's not going to synergize well in a condition pressure build, and he'll have almost no energy to heal party when you need ti most. I suggest switching to an ele, your choice (i suggest either air, water/Flash hybrid, or a runner.) Extinguish would be nice as well.

5) If you put an ele as the runner, put that Cripshot on the flagstand team with the build i specified, minus Sotrm Chaser. Stick in a Screaming SHot there, or a res sig. your choice.

Thats all ive got, hope it helps.

SanchO987 · Nov 09, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Wow, nice and detailed. I read through it and i agree with ^^, they necro wont fit in and the mesmer cant do too much. I might suck this build and warp it a bit to make it good. With this we may be able to secure a solid GvG build we can use so we can (finally) start winning matches

ump · Nov 09, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

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Originally Posted by Stealth Rider

A couple of points:

1) Disrupting CHop<Critical CHop with all of that Go for the eyes spam.

Good point.

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2) On the Cripshot, i suggest going R/A and using Signet of Malice instead of Blackout, Natural Stride and Storm Chaser as your running skills. Stride doubles as half a Distortion, though the fact that it is removed by enchants/hexes will hurt you when running. Try synergizing it with your monks (it onyl ends when an enchant or hex is cast* on you. you can keep it up if one is already on you.)

Natural Stride is definitely out with Aegis and Order of Pain spamming. The assassin secondary is a possibility, and ranger flag runners are definitely something I has very little knowledge on. I'll miss the Blackout to reset enemy warrior adrenaline though, which is my main reason for the mesmer secondary.

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3) Your mesmer seems like he'll have lots of energy and nowhere to put it. PDrain and Drian Enchant is a lot in itself, Tap seems a bit overkill. Recovery/Aegis is a nice idea in theory, but will you really need thta much defense with those paragons and necro? if you dont change it, at least put Power Return there. Youll need that interrupt.

You might be right about the energy. If that's the case, Power Return was the skill I already had in my mind as a replacement. What I'm worried about though is the there is enough energy to use all the skills twice with Mantra of Recovery.

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4) speaking of the necro, he's not going to synergize well in a condition pressure build, and he'll have almost no energy to heal party when you need ti most. I suggest switching to an ele, your choice (i suggest either air, water/Flash hybrid, or a runner.) Extinguish would be nice as well.

How is Order of Pain not in synergy with the rest of the team? The two warriors will primarily be using vampiric weapons. The paragons will be spamming spear attacks to build up adrenaline and the offensive one even has an IAS. My monks already use spears as their primary weapons (although they rarely attack, it's just for the mods). Go for the Eyes is going to be used a lot, so there are going to be a lot more critical hits. I personally feel Order of Pain is going to increase the damage a lot.

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5) If you put an ele as the runner, put that Cripshot on the flagstand team with the build i specified, minus Sotrm Chaser. Stick in a Screaming SHot there, or a res sig. your choice.

If I drop the necro, I'll consider it, but not now.

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Thats all ive got, hope it helps.

Thanks for taking the time look at this and giving detailed feedback.

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Originally Posted by Sancho0987

Wow, nice and detailed. I read through it and i agree with ^^, they necro wont fit in and the mesmer cant do too much. I might suck this build and warp it a bit to make it good. With this we may be able to secure a solid GvG build we can use so we can (finally) start winning matches

I have no problem with you are anyone else using this or a similar build. After all, top guilds on observer get their builds copied all the time, so there are no proprietary builds. I'd take it as a compliment. If you don't like the mesmer, that would be an obvious choice to add a second monk back in with. The necro can be whatever utility you think will help out the most.

scamPOR · Nov 10, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

1 primary monk? might as well drop the mesmer and do 2 monks.. still you have 2 paragons doing almost nothing offensive... An orders that has to get into range to hex (why?) and those are your only hexes (ie pointless) and then some random damage that doesn't really add anything.

ump · Nov 10, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

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Originally Posted by scamPOR

1 primary monk? might as well drop the mesmer and do 2 monks.. still you have 2 paragons doing almost nothing offensive...

What exactly do you look for in a monk build? This is probably an oversimplification, but I look for spike healing, pressure healing, damage mitigation/protection, condition removal, and hex removal. Let's look at the various defensive characters.

Monk
1) Spike healing - Reversal of Fortune, Glimmer of Light
2) Pressure healing - Glimmer of Light
3) Damage mitigation/protection - Guardian, Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption
4) Condition removal - Dismiss Condition
5) Hex removal - Inspired Hex, Hexbreaker

Mesmer
1) Spike healing - None
2) Pressure healing - None
3) Damage mitigation/protection - Aegis (16/30)
4) Condition removal - Dismiss Condition (twice every 3 seconds)
5) Hex removal - Remove Hex (twice every 7 seconds)

Defensive Paragon
1) Spike healing - None
2) Pressure healing - Signet of Synergy, Mending Refrain (echoed), Finale of Restoration (echoed)
3) Damage mitigation/protection - Watch Yourself, They're on Fire, Incoming
4) Condition removal - Purifying Finale (echoed)
5) Hex removal - None

Offensive Paragon
1) Spike healing - None
2) Pressure healing - None
3) Damage mitigation/protection - Incoming
4) Condition removal - None
5) Hex removal - None

Orders Necro
1) Spike healing - None
2) Pressure healing - Heal Party
3) Damage mitigation/protection - Faintheartedness, Shadow of Fear
4) Condition removal - None
5) Hex removal - None

Dropping the mesmer for another monk sounds good? In addition to the Aegis chain, he provides superior condition and hex removal to even a Blessed Light monk. There is already even pressure healing in Heal Party, Mending Refrain, Finale of Restoration, and Glimmer of Light. Caster spikes can be reduced with They're on Fire, Incoming, and Protective Spirit. Adrenaline spikes also need to go through Aegis, Shield of Absorption, and Guardian. In this particular build, I feel that the mesmer will provide more value offensively and defensively than another monk.

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An orders that has to get into range to hex (why?) and those are your only hexes (ie pointless) and then some random damage that doesn't really add anything.

I didn't really touch on this but here is how I see positioning. The two warriors make up the front line. The two paragons and the mesmer make up the midline. The monk makes up the backline. The necro can decide to stay way back or maybe it's safe in the backline if within range of the shouts. The offensive paragon always tries to stay within shout range of the warriors so their echoes get reapplied. The defensive paragon always tried to say within shout range of the monk and mesmer so their echoes get reapplied.

Offensively, the warriors begin pressuring the midline and other targets of opportunity. The paragons are always attacking to build up adrenaline. The orders necro will keep up Order of Pain to boost pressure damage the warriors and paragons are providing. Also, Go for the Eyes will be spamming and the increased critcal hits will cause more damage. Burning will be spread throughout and really increase the pressure. If there is a spike target of opportunity, the warriors will converge, the offensive paragon will remove any protective stances with Wild Throw, and the mesmer can assist either removing protective enchantments or interrupting the monk trying to heal him.

As far as the hexes on the necro goes, it really depends on positioning. If he stays way back (a la Ritualists) then he can move up to hex warriors who are probably attacking the monk and then go back. If he stays with the monk (and in shout range), then casting hexes shouldn't be an issue. If hexes are not the way to go, how about another suggestion?

Stealth Rider · Nov 11, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

As was said, the Necro hexes, as the only hexes in your build, will not do much. orders necros typically have lower health and sac often, and as such are usually positioned behind the backlines, where they are safe from spikes and heavy pressure. Not to mention, he wiull rarely have energy for the hexes if he is using Heal Party and OoP so often.

On another note, this build is extremely defensive, and as such will normally go to VoD i assume. The problem being, it has no way to effectively split aside from a YAA war and Cripshot runner. normally your split will not be able to powerplay theirs or do any real dmage to their base/lord if nessecary, and thus youll almost always have a disadvantage at VoD.

As i suggested before, an Ele would be the way to go instead of the necro, as it would give you a reliable Hard Res (Res chant on a mesmer<Glyph/Sacced res chant) or a better split if eh is a runner. The poison from an onfield Cripshot will help pressure considerably, and the interrupts and Cripple will be extremely useful both offensively and defensively.

Personally i think this build is *way* too defensive, which is why i think ou should alter the Mesmer and possibly throw Energizing FInale on a Paragon. EF will make your monk much happier when pressure healing, and will allow you to be more creative with your mesmer bar if you so choose. With an onfield Cripshot, it provides that much more Cripple.

I realize Natural Stride ends when an enchantment is put on you, but if for example Aegis is already on you and you hit Stride, it will stick till the next enchant is on you. Every second of 33% faster movement and 50% block counts.

Tainek · Nov 12, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

I Like it, few things

1: your mesmer should be /mo , not /w

2: the thing i fear about one monk is how easy he is to destroy, a KD chain (most teams are capable of 12 seconds of constant chain or more) would destroy him your only other healing being signet of sinergy and HP, if this is all thats helping him, even with all the defense he will still get raped in 10s, put brace yourself on one of the paragons Imo,

3: i'd change the monk to:

12+2 divine, 10+1 healing, 7+1 protection, 4 inspiration, 2 domination

Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Blessed Light, Protective Spirit, Gift of heath, Dismiss Condition, Inspired Hex, Hexbreaker

And swap tap for Infuse on the mesmer

Glimmer would only do better vs pressure, somthing this build has no problems with and SoA is a HA skill, its not so good in GvG, voila, more spike protection, and more hex removal,

also, bloodspike would Possibly destroy you, i cant think of any way to help this

ump · Nov 13, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

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I realize Natural Stride ends when an enchantment is put on you, but if for example Aegis is already on you and you hit Stride, it will stick till the next enchant is on you. Every second of 33% faster movement and 50% block counts.

Aegis can be worked around, Order of Pain cannot. If I drop the Order necro, I'll consider it.

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On another note, this build is extremely defensive, and as such will normally go to VoD i assume. The problem being, it has no way to effectively split aside from a YAA war and Cripshot runner. normally your split will not be able to powerplay theirs or do any real dmage to their base/lord if nessecary, and thus youll almost always have a disadvantage at VoD.

Actually, I think the build can split effectively 4-4 in the way I ordered it. Obviously, it needs testing in team arenas or a scrimmage.

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As i suggested before, an Ele would be the way to go instead of the necro, as it would give you a reliable Hard Res (Res chant on a mesmer<Glyph/Sacced res chant) or a better split if eh is a runner. The poison from an onfield Cripshot will help pressure considerably, and the interrupts and Cripple will be extremely useful both offensively and defensively.

I don't see why everyone isn't liking Order of Pain. Are you suggesting using an E/Mo runner and putting the crip shot with the main party?

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possibly throw Energizing FInale on a Paragon

It does seem that Energizing Finale is too powerful. I suppose I could try to fit it in the Aggressive Refrain slot for now.

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1: your mesmer should be /mo , not /w

You're right.

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And swap tap for Infuse on the mesmer

Infuse Health doesn't seem like a bad idea on the mesmer.

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the thing i fear about one monk is how easy he is to destroy, a KD chain (most teams are capable of 12 seconds of constant chain or more) would destroy him your only other healing being signet of sinergy and HP, if this is all thats helping him, even with all the defense he will still get raped in 10s, put brace yourself on one of the paragons Imo,

You forget Mending Refrain and Finale of Restoration. Mending Refrain should always stay up and Finale of Restoration is going to trigger quite often with the number of shouts in the build. A knockdown chain against you would be the perfect time to chain Incoming!.

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3: i'd change the monk to:

12+2 divine, 10+1 healing, 7+1 protection, 4 inspiration, 2 domination

Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Blessed Light, Protective Spirit, Gift of heath, Dismiss Condition, Inspired Hex, Hexbreaker

And swap tap for Infuse on the mesmer

Glimmer would only do better vs pressure, somthing this build has no problems with and SoA is a HA skill, its not so good in GvG, voila, more spike protection, and more hex removal,

I'm a little confused how you got more spike protection considering the Glimmer monk runs Guardian, Shield of Absorption, and Protective Spirit in addition to spike healing in Reversal of Fortune and Glimmer of Light.

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also, bloodspike would Possibly destroy you, i cant think of any way to help this

I don't know if that is the case, but if it is, it's hard to find any one build that can beat every other build. Hopefully, it's a build that is very uncommon.

Stealth Rider · Nov 14, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

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I don't see why everyone isn't liking Order of Pain

It isnt order of pain, its the fact that that character will:

1) Not be in position to hex, if he is standing back and saccing/spamming HP

2) not have enough energy to HP often enough/spam hexes

3) Not have a defined place in that type of pressure build

4) generally make your team weaker than it should be due to any of the above.

Also, you can either stick the ele onfield and keep the Cripshot running, which would give you yet more defense (switch that mesmer to something more offensive, IMO) and a much more reliable hard res in Glyph/Sac res chant, or you can have him run and give your tema a better 5/3 split, along with nice condition pressure, snares and a single char split that doesnt remove too much from your main team.

ump · Nov 14, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

I can change the necro slot into an air ele slot and put the crip shot in the midline.

E/Mo
Air: 11+1, Energy: 10+1+1, Healing: 10, Protection: 1

Lightning Orb, Blinding Flash, Gale, Storm Djinn's Haste, Healing Breeze, Heal Party, Extinguish, Ether Prism

Sir Moak · Nov 16, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Or just swap the necro for a D/N, pump 12 in blood, 8 in earth prayers, rest in mysticism. Minor runes would be all right.
Now add to the skillbar: Order of Pain, Signet of Pious Light, Imbue Health, Conviction.

Now you have an orders necro with more than 500 health, continual energy and health management while spamming orders (eating ur own OoP with the signet means you heal back all the sac cost + get back all the energy via Mysticism), an infuse skill (with a 10sec recharge, but ~260 spike heal) and 94 base armor or 70 armor + 3 health regen.

Oh, and you still have 4 slots (3 if you count rez sig) to use as utility.
You could use Aura of Thorns as a backline snare and cover condition with bleeding if anyone goes after your backline.

This build was originally developed by me and few of my guildmates, though we never published it and seen it later in other teams. Of course it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use an attribute centered around enchantments when using an enchantment spamming build

ump · Nov 16, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Thanks for sharing the build. One of my guildmates suggested a D/N Orders Dervish but didn't provide a detailed skill list. I especially like the extra healing it can help the monk with because then I can drop the Infuse Health on the mesmer and use a combo that I just read elsewhere: Mantra of Recovery + Ether Phantom + Drain Delusions. Combine that with Drain Enchantment and there should be a good inspiration-based edenial component in the build.

necrosfeelyaks · Nov 17, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

In all fairness, no matter what your doing, only going one primary healer is always dangerous. Paragon shouts are extremely powerul yes, but putting pressure on a monk with a mesmer gets easier. You start to pressure and or spike your team, while my one mesmer casts diversion on you, you either divert your elite, or let one of your players die (pending your infuser is being spiked and or already diverted), plus, once I saw u had an infuser, a really soft infuser, I would instantly plan a simple tactict to get him down. Your build is built off support, your monk will be fueled plenty, yes, but he is still himself